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workshirk
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 06:16 am |
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Aside from all the official manufactures recommendations has anyone actually got any experience of mixing similar tyres? and by similar I mean soft fronts and harder rears; specifically a Diablo Corsa on the front and a Diablo Street, (not Strada) on the rear?
Assuming the shape, physical size and profile is the same, a harder tyre, (but still softer than most of us need) on the rear would match a soft front perfectly?
I know, why not have both Street tyres but the rear Corsa is wearing waay before the front and I just wondered if anyone had tried this?
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dooley
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 06:19 am |
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they say you shouldn't, but considering how differently my front and rear wear
i can't see how it's an issue
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i never sleep
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:04 am |
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I'm sure it's fine 99.99% of the time.
EDIT - what happened to the buell?Last edited on Fri May 16th, 2008 11:59 am by i never sleep
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karTER
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:05 am |
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| I thought that "rule" only applied to using different manufacturers. If the tyres are made by the same company, I can't see the problem. It seems to work for the racing bods...
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:09 am |
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Depends how you ride, perhaps. Profiles and carcass stiffness as well as compounds are different across ranges, so the Diablo isn't just the same as a Corsa 3 but with harder rubber. Even if it was, in some situations you would find yourself with one hot tyre and one cold - I'd find that worrying, and can't think of a better way to introduce weird handling characteristics.
Is it that you're looking for better mileage, or just synching tyre changes?
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a dual compound sports touring tyre? Michelin Pilot Road IIs seem to wear fairly evenly front/back, and so far mine have been wearing faster on the edges than the centre. They've given me the same mileage as BT-020s, but with much better cornering ability.
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workshirk
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 04:34 pm |
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i never sleep wrote: I'm sure it's fine 99.99% of the time.
EDIT - what happened to the buell?
After nearly 30,000 hard miles I thought it should be put out to pasture; that together with an offer I couldn't refuse and a very encouraging wife, it was time to go back to 'normal'...
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workshirk
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 04:45 pm |
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PaulR wrote: Depends how you ride, perhaps. Profiles and carcass stiffness as well as compounds are different across ranges, so the Diablo isn't just the same as a Corsa 3 but with harder rubber. Even if it was, in some situations you would find yourself with one hot tyre and one cold - I'd find that worrying, and can't think of a better way to introduce weird handling characteristics.
Is it that you're looking for better mileage, or just synching tyre changes?
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a dual compound sports touring tyre? Michelin Pilot Road IIs seem to wear fairly evenly front/back, and so far mine have been wearing faster on the edges than the centre. They've given me the same mileage as BT-020s, but with much better cornering ability.
Most of this is where my mind was going anyway, and yes I would definitely use more road oriented rubber as most of my riding is road, and even road tyres are better than most of us on the track. It's just that after 1,500 miles, (of the best kind of roads you can realistically expect in the real world and a track day) the rear Corsa is almost gone yet the front is still like new. I have used the Pilots and would agian like a shot but a local dealer here, (New Mexico) was doing a deal of a pair of Diablo streets for $180 and I couldn't let that go! I just wondered if anyone else had mixed tyres - just like a pub chat kind of thread that I don't get whilst travelling with just my wife...
Generally the heat thing wouldn't be an issue as the harder rear gets worked harder in normal use and would get as warm as the softer front; bearing in mind both tyres have pretty large working heat ranges.
Who's round is it?
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 04:55 pm |
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workshirk wrote: PaulR wrote: Depends how you ride, perhaps. Profiles and carcass stiffness as well as compounds are different across ranges, so the Diablo isn't just the same as a Corsa 3 but with harder rubber. Even if it was, in some situations you would find yourself with one hot tyre and one cold - I'd find that worrying, and can't think of a better way to introduce weird handling characteristics.
Is it that you're looking for better mileage, or just synching tyre changes?
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a dual compound sports touring tyre? Michelin Pilot Road IIs seem to wear fairly evenly front/back, and so far mine have been wearing faster on the edges than the centre. They've given me the same mileage as BT-020s, but with much better cornering ability.
Most of this is where my mind was going anyway, and yes I would definitely use more road oriented rubber as most of my riding is road, and even road tyres are better than most of us on the track. It's just that after 1,500 miles, (of the best kind of roads you can realistically expect in the real world and a track day) the rear Corsa is almost gone yet the front is still like new. I have used the Pilots and would agian like a shot but a local dealer here, (New Mexico) was doing a deal of a pair of Diablo streets for $180 and I couldn't let that go! I just wondered if anyone else had mixed tyres - just like a pub chat kind of thread that I don't get whilst travelling with just my wife...
Generally the heat thing wouldn't be an issue as the harder rear gets worked harder in normal use and would get as warm as the softer front; bearing in mind both tyres have pretty large working heat ranges.
Who's round is it?
Fair enough. I'd still worry about the heat thing though, personally: something track-oriented will lose its heat much quicker than a road tyre, so coming off pace the rear could lose heat/grip without the front having given warning of it, if you know what I mean: back on the pace and next stop, highside!
But that's in the UK in our feeble ambient temperatures: you're in the States still, aren't you? Where you are I don't suppose you find yourself riding much when it's below 12°. But even if the front had a few extra miles left in it, I'd usually change both tyres at the same time on a sportsbike. It's not that much cash that you'd save, and tyres are where all that lovely engineering meets the road...
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workshirk
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:33 pm |
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PaulR wrote: workshirk wrote: PaulR wrote: Depends how you ride, perhaps. Profiles and carcass stiffness as well as compounds are different across ranges, so the Diablo isn't just the same as a Corsa 3 but with harder rubber. Even if it was, in some situations you would find yourself with one hot tyre and one cold - I'd find that worrying, and can't think of a better way to introduce weird handling characteristics.
Is it that you're looking for better mileage, or just synching tyre changes?
Wouldn't it be easier to just use a dual compound sports touring tyre? Michelin Pilot Road IIs seem to wear fairly evenly front/back, and so far mine have been wearing faster on the edges than the centre. They've given me the same mileage as BT-020s, but with much better cornering ability.
Most of this is where my mind was going anyway, and yes I would definitely use more road oriented rubber as most of my riding is road, and even road tyres are better than most of us on the track. It's just that after 1,500 miles, (of the best kind of roads you can realistically expect in the real world and a track day) the rear Corsa is almost gone yet the front is still like new. I have used the Pilots and would agian like a shot but a local dealer here, (New Mexico) was doing a deal of a pair of Diablo streets for $180 and I couldn't let that go! I just wondered if anyone else had mixed tyres - just like a pub chat kind of thread that I don't get whilst travelling with just my wife...
Generally the heat thing wouldn't be an issue as the harder rear gets worked harder in normal use and would get as warm as the softer front; bearing in mind both tyres have pretty large working heat ranges.
Who's round is it?
Fair enough. I'd still worry about the heat thing though, personally: something track-oriented will lose its heat much quicker than a road tyre, so coming off pace the rear could lose heat/grip without the front having given warning of it, if you know what I mean: back on the pace and next stop, highside!
But that's in the UK in our feeble ambient temperatures: you're in the States still, aren't you? Where you are I don't suppose you find yourself riding much when it's below 12°. But even if the front had a few extra miles left in it, I'd usually change both tyres at the same time on a sportsbike. It's not that much cash that you'd save, and tyres are where all that lovely engineering meets the road...
You're so right and I know all this, (although I doubt the change in temps between on and off the pace would make enough difference to lose grip totaly, unless you're doing track days every week, especialy on a road legal tyre) but I was just hoping to hear from someone who actually uses a mix of compounds. I know the pros do and a guy over here told me once that he knew someone who always used a Pilot Power on the front and a Pilot Road on the rear, for road and track and wouldn't change for anything.
I've obviously got very gash over here doing the travelling thing as in Mexico I rode 2,000 miles with a repaired puncture and then the only tyre I could get was a Maxis rear to match the Pilot Power on the front. The front I eventually nursed back to civilisation with over 7,000 miles on it and very little tread or profile left! And that's with almost 30 year's experience!!! See what I mean about missing the whole 'pub chat' thing...
As for the temp; you know when you have to peel your lesthers on coz it's so hot and only 70+ mph is bearable? that's me that is 
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 08:33 pm |
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I know one bloke who nearly highsided a couple of weeks ago - on the road, mind - when his previously-hot Pilot Race rear lost grip after a brief slow stretch. Mind you, the Race is a very track-oriented tyre by all accounts, and it was a chilly evening. I'll shut up now in the hope that someone who mixes tyres turns up and actually answers your question...
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dooley
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 08:49 pm |
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surely if you don't go too crazy - like mixing track tyres and touring tyres you're gonna be fairly safe
point taken re carcases, but surely after a few hundred miles of speed bumps and general british tarmac they're all gonna be fairly mushy.
i stil maintain the bt57 was the best tyre ever made.
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 08:57 pm |
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Absolutely - like I said about a million posts ago, it depends how you ride. Mismatched carcass stiffnesses can give some strange speed weaves in normal riding, but not so bad they spit you off or anything.
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bignige
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 04:55 pm |
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when i first started readin bike mags in the early 80's a soft front and a harder rear was always mentioned as a riders tip.
but i aint seen it mentioned in years.
all round improvement in tyres?
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iantls
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 10:36 am |
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Over the years poverty has forced various mis-matches of tyres, both in terms of brand and type.
Never had to much of issue with any at typical road speeds.
The the worst set was actually a pair of Dunlop d207rr's on a 94 Blade, complete understeering nightmare, transformed by a set of Pirellis.
never mattered what i put on the back of the TL1000S, the front Bridgestone outlast 4 rears of various brands, with little impact on the handling.
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workshirk
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 09:39 pm |
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And of course how much faster are we really, (road) riding now than we, (me anyway) were more than 15 years ago on an FZR1000 on Pirelli MP7s???
And so I guess modern tyres are so much better that a 1000 would be better now on 'Trailwings' than they were on cross plys not that long ago!
Last edited on Mon May 19th, 2008 09:41 pm by workshirk
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FalcoDog
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 10:05 pm |
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| Don't do it.
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Quaddy
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 10:17 pm |
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Don't the tyre companies already do just that? .... in that the front version of any given tyre will be made softer than the rear of the same type because it doesn't experience the same forces. Rears will always wear faster coz that's where all the power goes.
Mixing tyres sounds like a bad idea to me as different types even from the same manufacturer will have different profiles, let alone different temperature ranges within which they're designed to operate.
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kickstart
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 11:16 am |
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Hi
Normal road riding I have mixed tyres loads of times and never felt an issue except on one bike. Little Aprilia RS125 needed a front tyre in a hurry and landed up with a Michelin (rear was a Dunlop), and the handling was definatly badly affected.
All the best
Keith
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ConuNae
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 11:33 am |
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Interesting stuff.
I have Pirelly Corsa on front and Conti Road Attack rear. With all my lack of experience... the rear does seem to warm slower than the previous matching Corsa rear. Judging by the backslides anyway.
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iantls
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 11:45 am |
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"And of course how much faster are we really, (road) riding now than we, (me anyway) were more than 15 years ago on an FZR1000 on Pirelli MP7s???"
Good point.
Certainly I ride "quicker" but not "harder" than I did 20 yrs ago on my Pirelli Phantom shod CB900.
Given the progress in tyre technology, very confident that my riding on the road today pushes the limits of the tyres far less than it did back then.
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