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EricOcean
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:30 am |
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So, the question is: Would there be a market for a boring bike that will be extremely practical?
Don't let my own bike confuse you of this issue though.
I guess the answer to the question could be changing.
Bikes are still mostly bought for their exitement factor and entertainment value.
If congestion keeps up the way it's going though, It won't be long before a main supplier might realise there is a new market for the 2 foot wide shopping trolley using 1 gallon / 100 miles.
If you look at london for example, you see many many more scooters. The new three wheeled trend seems to cater to the people who previously were not keen on scooters due to their fear f instability.
Looking at cities in Spain, the amount of two wheelers is incomparable to here.
So the (near) future?
Perhaps a cheper and more econimical version of the C1.
Not really what we would call a bike or dedicate a magazine to I guess.
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 07:20 am |
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mr goiter wrote: PaulR wrote:
100bhp per litre and shaft drive is car like, and gives car like service intervals.
100bhp rear wheel for a car would still be a high state of tune. Bikes rev really high and wear components many times faster. I think if you want a bike that has service intervals like a car it would need to perform like a car, and nobody with a pulse would want that.
I didn't say at the rear wheel, did I? My Saab car and my BMW motorcycle have almost exactly the same bhp per litre. The power-to-weight ratio is such that the motorcycle performs like a motorcycle, the car performs like a car. Both have shaft drive.
My point was that such bikes already exist and plenty of people are already riding them.
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dooley
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:47 am |
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not many cars get through brakes and tyres like bikes though
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ExpatinIstanbul
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 09:00 am |
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Not many cars have such small contact patches and so much braking force going through one brake. But you knew that already, so I don't know why I wrote this. I guess I had a couple of minutes to spare. I'll probably wish I'd used them for something else later.
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 09:00 am by ExpatinIstanbul
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 09:49 am |
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dooley wrote: not many cars get through brakes and tyres like bikes though
There will always be fundamental differences in traction and grip between a two-wheeled leaning vehicle and a four wheeled vehicle. Can't buck physics. But since you mention it, given similar compounds and driving styles, tyre wear rates can be very similar: my Volvo T5 car runs on very soft low-profile tyres, they last about 8-9k on the front (driven wheels). My BMW motorcycle gets about 8-9k from a rear (driven wheel). To replace both front tyres on the T5 costs about £230 though, while a rear for the BMW only costs about £100.
Likewise brake pads - About 35k from the front pads on my BMW, less than that from the front pads on the T5. And the T5's front pads cost about twice as much per change.
Oh - and bhp-per-litre is almost identical too.
I keep saying - the answer's already out there.
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 09:51 am by PaulR
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ExpatinIstanbul
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 09:55 am |
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PaulR wrote: dooley wrote: not many cars get through brakes and tyres like bikes though
There will always be fundamental differences in traction and grip between a two-wheeled leaning vehicle and a four wheeled vehicle. Can't buck physics. But since you mention it, given similar compounds and driving styles, tyre wear rates can be very similar: my Volvo T5 car runs on very soft low-profile tyres, they last about 8-9k on the front (driven wheels). My BMW motorcycle gets about 8-9k from a rear (driven wheel). To replace both front tyres on the T5 costs about £230 though, while a rear for the BMW only costs about £100.
Likewise brake pads - About 35k from the front pads on my BMW, less than that from the front pads on the T5. And the T5's front pads cost about twice as much per change.
Oh - and bhp-per-litre is almost identical too.
I keep saying - the answer's already out there.
A BMW and a Volvo. Ahem.
A T5 is hardly a standard car though is it?
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 10:24 am |
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ExpatinIstanbul wrote: PaulR wrote: dooley wrote: not many cars get through brakes and tyres like bikes though
There will always be fundamental differences in traction and grip between a two-wheeled leaning vehicle and a four wheeled vehicle. Can't buck physics. But since you mention it, given similar compounds and driving styles, tyre wear rates can be very similar: my Volvo T5 car runs on very soft low-profile tyres, they last about 8-9k on the front (driven wheels). My BMW motorcycle gets about 8-9k from a rear (driven wheel). To replace both front tyres on the T5 costs about £230 though, while a rear for the BMW only costs about £100.
Likewise brake pads - About 35k from the front pads on my BMW, less than that from the front pads on the T5. And the T5's front pads cost about twice as much per change.
Oh - and bhp-per-litre is almost identical too.
I keep saying - the answer's already out there.
A BMW and a Volvo. Ahem.
A T5 is hardly a standard car though is it?
No it isn't, although it is an off-the-shelf family estate car. But when making comparisons, then the sensible thing to do is compare like with like, in terms of performance, bhp-per-litre and so on.
It isn't that motorcycles are inherently feebler or greedier than cars, it's just that most people choose ones that are.
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ExpatinIstanbul
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 11:02 am |
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PaulR wrote: ExpatinIstanbul wrote: PaulR wrote: dooley wrote: not many cars get through brakes and tyres like bikes though
There will always be fundamental differences in traction and grip between a two-wheeled leaning vehicle and a four wheeled vehicle. Can't buck physics. But since you mention it, given similar compounds and driving styles, tyre wear rates can be very similar: my Volvo T5 car runs on very soft low-profile tyres, they last about 8-9k on the front (driven wheels). My BMW motorcycle gets about 8-9k from a rear (driven wheel). To replace both front tyres on the T5 costs about £230 though, while a rear for the BMW only costs about £100.
Likewise brake pads - About 35k from the front pads on my BMW, less than that from the front pads on the T5. And the T5's front pads cost about twice as much per change.
Oh - and bhp-per-litre is almost identical too.
I keep saying - the answer's already out there.
A BMW and a Volvo. Ahem.
A T5 is hardly a standard car though is it?
No it isn't, although it is an off-the-shelf family estate car. But when making comparisons, then the sensible thing to do is compare like with like, in terms of performance, bhp-per-litre and so on.
It isn't that motorcycles are inherently feebler or greedier than cars, it's just that most people choose ones that are.
I'm not entirely certain what my point is here, but my Nissan Navara's tyres needed changing after 50,000km, but my GS's needed a swap after 13,000km. This is with 90/10% road / off road use for both. My bike, even though a supposed round the world capable thing still needs more spending on it per kilometre. Not including bolt-on bits.
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 11:06 am |
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You need a point to post on this forum? When was that introduced?
Most bikes are fussier to run than most cars, but some bikes are no fussier to run than some cars. It's a Venn diagram. What you get is down to which you choose.
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 11:06 am by PaulR
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ExpatinIstanbul
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 11:28 am |
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OK, so, what do the forum's illustrious, and by illustrious I mean all members, 'cos I'm in a good mood, consider the most likely two wheeled contender for the cheapest to run but still reasonably fun bike? I know this'll depend on usage, but let's say it's a Mr, or Mrs, or Miss, or Ms (why do they have so many?) average. It should be something 500cc+ and be as close to a replacement to a car as can be.
A Versys?
A 650GS?
A ........ok that's all I know. What else?
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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ExpatinIstanbul wrote: OK, so, what do the forum's illustrious, and by illustrious I mean all members, 'cos I'm in a good mood, consider the most likely two wheeled contender for the cheapest to run but still reasonably fun bike? I know this'll depend on usage, but let's say it's a Mr, or Mrs, or Miss, or Ms (why do they have so many?) average. It should be something 500cc+ and be as close to a replacement to a car as can be.
A Versys?
A 650GS?
A ........ok that's all I know. What else?
BMW R1100RS. 
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johnktm
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 02:23 pm |
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ExpatinIstanbul wrote: OK, so, what do the forum's illustrious, and by illustrious I mean all members, 'cos I'm in a good mood, consider the most likely two wheeled contender for the cheapest to run but still reasonably fun bike? I know this'll depend on usage, but let's say it's a Mr, or Mrs, or Miss, or Ms (why do they have so many?) average. It should be something 500cc+ and be as close to a replacement to a car as can be.
A Versys?
A 650GS?
A ........ok that's all I know. What else?
I`m interesred in this,I seriously think overall running costs are gonna have to be factored in to my next choice of bike in a couple of years.Obviously we don`t know what new models will be available then,but what is there about now that can fill the criteria of fun and frugal? the Versys does spring to mind,any more contenders?
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 03:16 pm |
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I'll expand on the BMW R1100RS, looking at the major expenditures:
Fuel consumption - 45mpg average
Tyre wear - 8-9k miles on Bridgestone BT-020 or Michelin PRII (typically £200 pair)
Chain & Sprockets - none
Service consumables - £50 @ 6k, £60 @ 12k*
Service labour - easy home servicing, 2hrs @ 6k, half-day @ 12k (at the most)
Brake pads - Front 35k (£36), Rear 8k (£14)
* Once the bike's mileage is over 24k, the 6k service can be omitted, perhaps just change oil and flter. Because it has a dry clutch, car-type 10/40W oil can be used @ £14 per change.
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dooley
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:11 pm |
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ok, i'm surprised by the front pad thing. i'm guessing discs last a while too
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:16 pm |
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Still on the originals, front and rear, at 60k - front aren't showing any wear, the back has probably got another 20k in it. And the brake calipers are Brembo - British winters don't seem to have any effect on them.
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:17 pm by PaulR
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dooley
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:26 pm |
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i was sceptical of the bmw thing cos remember chatting to some bike cops when i did bikesafe and they told me the bmws they run cost a fucking fortune to keep going - way more than any of the cars they had
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:26 pm by dooley
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:07 pm |
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The four cylinder bikes can be expensive to maintain, but the boxer twins are so simple - there's nothing to them. Seriously, what I've quoted above is what mine costs me to run.
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Deni
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:23 pm |
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PaulR wrote: The four cylinder bikes can be expensive to maintain, but the boxer twins are so simple - there's nothing to them. Seriously, what I've quoted above is what mine costs me to run.
so, why are you thinking of changing it?
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PaulR
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:38 pm |
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Deni wrote: PaulR wrote: The four cylinder bikes can be expensive to maintain, but the boxer twins are so simple - there's nothing to them. Seriously, what I've quoted above is what mine costs me to run.
so, why are you thinking of changing it?
If you know that I'm thinking of changing it, then you know why as well, don't you? If not, you just have to read a little further.
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Deni
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Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:39 pm |
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PaulR wrote: Deni wrote: PaulR wrote: The four cylinder bikes can be expensive to maintain, but the boxer twins are so simple - there's nothing to them. Seriously, what I've quoted above is what mine costs me to run.
so, why are you thinking of changing it?
If you know that I'm thinking of changing it, then you know why as well, don't you? If not, you just have to read a little further.
ummmmm, no actually....where shall i read?
edit................ah...remembered... - sorry.... twas a random thought wave - luckily, they don't happen too often...
as you were...
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 08:48 pm by Deni
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