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TimmyMagic
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:00 pm |
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And that is where RIDE fits into the marketplace...
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PaulR
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:01 pm |
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KhalH wrote: This is just my thoughts on the matter of used v new bikes. Five used bikes are sold for every new one. I've never been able to afford a new bike, it'll likely be a long time before I can. Back when I read magazines (TWO at first, then Ride and then Bike) I cast my eye over new bikes but my heart sank when I saw the price and knew the chances of me ever so much as cocking a leg over one (without being asked to leave the shop without making a scene straight after) were slim to none.
The most I could claw together for a new bike (trade in, cash, loans and promises not to take my clothes off) was about £3000. That was my ceiling. The bits I read were bikes I could just about afford. They felt like they were written for me. The rest was for rich folk.
An re-engineering the VFR is for who, exactly?
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dooley
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:04 pm |
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i think the used tests covered the second hand thing pretty well. i know i was influenced in my choice of new bike what you had to say about the same bike as a used example.
i don't particularly want to read about day to day living with a 2 yr old mid size naked, that's my reality.
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KhalH
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:05 pm |
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TimmyMagic wrote: And that is where RIDE fits into the marketplace...
Demographically? Yes. For me, I couldn't get on with the writing styles, contributors and lack of travel, history, Dan Walsh and wacky adventures. Hence buying Bike.
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MarkShelley
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:07 pm |
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If Rupe goes ahead then I think you should invite some readers to try it out for their opinions.
Can I be first in the queue please. I can compare it to my old `89 model
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TimmyMagic
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:13 pm |
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KhalH wrote: TimmyMagic wrote: And that is where RIDE fits into the marketplace...
Demographically? Yes. For me, I couldn't get on with the writing styles, contributors and lack of travel, history, Dan Walsh and wacky adventures. Hence buying Bike.
But why change the best selling bike mag to be the same as a mag with only just over half the sales?
People that want to read RIDE buy RIDE. The trouble is, by all accounts, people that want to read RIDE will soon be able to buy BIKE OR RIDE.
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Mav
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 12:17 pm |
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I can see the point of 2nd hand bikes and newer bikes in the long term test.
I think that maybe giving someone a full on Supersports bike when they were newish to biking would tell readers more than basically building a new bike from an old Honda.
lets face it how many will do anything like what is suggested?
or
How many come here and ask about (or just go out and get) a R1, GSXR, Blade fresh from DAS?
Following someone from "OH shit this is gonna kill me" through to its end would be a better prospect - yes it is sim to what DiRe did with Rookie to racer but as has been said, there is nothing new....................
or you can just ignore me - and sell one less mag a month...........
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mph999
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 01:28 pm |
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PaulR wrote: KhalH wrote: This is just my thoughts on the matter of used v new bikes. Five used bikes are sold for every new one. I've never been able to afford a new bike, it'll likely be a long time before I can. Back when I read magazines (TWO at first, then Ride and then Bike) I cast my eye over new bikes but my heart sank when I saw the price and knew the chances of me ever so much as cocking a leg over one (without being asked to leave the shop without making a scene straight after) were slim to none.
The most I could claw together for a new bike (trade in, cash, loans and promises not to take my clothes off) was about £3000. That was my ceiling. The bits I read were bikes I could just about afford. They felt like they were written for me. The rest was for rich folk.
An re-engineering the VFR is for who, exactly?
Agree with this whole heartedly. It seems like an academic exercise to me.
In addition:
1. I'm pretty sure VFR sales dropped considerably after the VTEC was launched because it was not as good as the previous model; which at the time was the consummate "all-rounder".
2. "All-rounders" from other manufacturers caught up considerably and in many cases overtook the VFR.
3. Riders became more affluent generally so a compromise bike was less of a requirement; such riders went out and purchased a sports bike and a tourer.
3. It's not like there are thousands of VFR owners champing at the bit to do this.
4. If BIKE/Rupe succeed, it's not like everyone including Honda don't already know that they completely over engineered the VFR with the VTEC replacement.
5. etc, etc ad infinitum
I would hazard a guess that a typcial VFR owner is not in to the type of re-engineering that's on the table because usually they are not that type of motorcyclist- on top of all the economic arguments that PaulR gave earlier.
I think BIKE (not Khal personally) should employ Rupe's talents on another project.
edited some of the spelling mistakes.......
Last edited on Wed Apr 30th, 2008 04:50 pm by mph999
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the rest are merely games.
attributed to Ernest Hemingway
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nickwiz
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 11:18 pm |
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By the time Khal has ressurected that scabby old VTR and filled the thimblelike tank a few times I reckon he might have been able to put down a deposit on something tasty and new.
Lets get this straight plse. Bike is was great for quirky features, travel, road tests that tell the truth and don't just say "its a sportsbike so its great!" The lack of chavvy bling shite features, The historical stuff Ogri (an institution like it or not) though son of Ogri might be good as he must be a right old git now! It used to have a nice clean unfussy design and a refreshingly sensible use of ad space. I thought the old new and used specs were good for at a glance comparisons and the mini articles about bikes pity they went to be replaced by product placement photography.
What bike was not and should not be in the future is an upmarket Used bike buyers guide, a Ride magazine clone, or a version of classic mechanics for 90's bikes! So please reverse the current trend. Go back and look at what made BIKE BIKE as it were and lets go back to the future.
Oh and please bring back the nice clean design. Not the fancy font bitty pages we're getting right now.
Thanx
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eddieknocker
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Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 11:44 pm |
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I like Bike. It's better than Ride. If it did product testing as well as Ride I wouldn't need to buy Ride at all.
I don't understand this 2nd hand obsession though and this "can't afford to buy a new bike" cobblers. I got my er6n with 99 quid deposit and 0% for 4 years. Are you lot such a bad credit risk that you can't get the same sort of action? ok...don't answer that...
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kickstart
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 01:07 pm |
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eddieknocker wrote:
I got my er6n with 99 quid deposit and 0% for 4 years. Are you lot such a bad credit risk that you can't get the same sort of action? ok...don't answer that...
Different people want different bikes, and would prefer to have 2nd hand something that suits them more than something new on 0% finance.
One of the bikes I have is a Bimota Dieci. Would love to be able to buy a new Bimota, but for me financially better to spend £4.5k buying it, with the first owners having taken the £10k hit in depreciation.
All the best
Keith
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mph999
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Posted: Sun May 4th, 2008 07:38 pm |
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mph999 wrote: PaulR wrote: KhalH wrote: This is just my thoughts on the matter of used v new bikes. Five used bikes are sold for every new one. I've never been able to afford a new bike, it'll likely be a long time before I can. Back when I read magazines (TWO at first, then Ride and then Bike) I cast my eye over new bikes but my heart sank when I saw the price and knew the chances of me ever so much as cocking a leg over one (without being asked to leave the shop without making a scene straight after) were slim to none.
The most I could claw together for a new bike (trade in, cash, loans and promises not to take my clothes off) was about £3000. That was my ceiling. The bits I read were bikes I could just about afford. They felt like they were written for me. The rest was for rich folk.
An re-engineering the VFR is for who, exactly?
Agree with this whole heartedly. It seems like an academic exercise to me.
In addition:
1. I'm pretty sure VFR sales dropped considerably after the VTEC was launched because it was not as good as the previous model; which at the time was the consummate "all-rounder".
2. "All-rounders" from other manufacturers caught up considerably and in many cases overtook the VFR.
3. Riders became more affluent generally so a compromise bike was less of a requirement; such riders went out and purchased a sports bike and a tourer.
3. It's not like there are thousands of VFR owners champing at the bit to do this.
4. If BIKE/Rupe succeed, it's not like everyone including Honda don't already know that they completely over engineered the VFR with the VTEC replacement.
5. etc, etc ad infinitum
I would hazard a guess that a typcial VFR owner is not in to the type of re-engineering that's on the table because usually they are not that type of motorcyclist- on top of all the economic arguments that PaulR gave earlier.
I think BIKE (not Khal personally) should employ Rupe's talents on another project.
edited some of the spelling mistakes.......
BiKE guys- I hope that you've pulled the plug on Rupe's VFR spannering?
____________________
there are only three sports in life:
mountaineering, bullfighting and motorsport.
the rest are merely games.
attributed to Ernest Hemingway
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karTER
Moderator
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Posted: Mon May 5th, 2008 05:04 am |
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kickstart wrote: eddieknocker wrote:
I got my er6n with 99 quid deposit and 0% for 4 years. Are you lot such a bad credit risk that you can't get the same sort of action? ok...don't answer that...
Different people want different bikes, and would prefer to have 2nd hand something that suits them more than something new on 0% finance.
One of the bikes I have is a Bimota Dieci. Would love to be able to buy a new Bimota, but for me financially better to spend £4.5k buying it, with the first owners having taken the £10k hit in depreciation.
All the best
Keith
Couldn't agree more- always good second hand which will save a fortune and it's yours from day one. I can't stand being in debt to anyone.
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iantls
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 11:16 am |
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As with all the good things in life, tis all about balance.
I enjoy reading about the technical advances of the latest gsxr/r1/blade, but with 3 kids et al absorbing all available income, my reality is a 3k Triumph 955i. Having ridden all sorts over many years i do like to see how well some of the older designs have stood the test of time...(mind you that VTR looks a reet pile of **it!) and for me the renovation of the Urban Tiger Blade last year was very relevent.
What dont i like about bike?
all this rider instruction and training gumph. If you want to learn to ride better/safer, go take a course, cos you will learn sod-all just reading about it.
More generally re motorcycle magazines is how totally irrelevant much of the testing is, "this years gsxr/ri/blade is a full nano-second faster around the nurburgbloodyring than last years totally outmoded model"
So please, keep a decent mix of old and new (enjoyed the original copy of Bike even tho i was only 3 when it first came out!), less of the training crap and try and keep the new bike stuff relevent to real road riding.
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mph999
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Posted: Tue May 6th, 2008 04:19 pm |
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mph999 wrote: mph999 wrote: PaulR wrote: KhalH wrote: This is just my thoughts on the matter of used v new bikes. Five used bikes are sold for every new one. I've never been able to afford a new bike, it'll likely be a long time before I can. Back when I read magazines (TWO at first, then Ride and then Bike) I cast my eye over new bikes but my heart sank when I saw the price and knew the chances of me ever so much as cocking a leg over one (without being asked to leave the shop without making a scene straight after) were slim to none.
The most I could claw together for a new bike (trade in, cash, loans and promises not to take my clothes off) was about £3000. That was my ceiling. The bits I read were bikes I could just about afford. They felt like they were written for me. The rest was for rich folk.
An re-engineering the VFR is for who, exactly?
Agree with this whole heartedly. It seems like an academic exercise to me.
In addition:
1. I'm pretty sure VFR sales dropped considerably after the VTEC was launched because it was not as good as the previous model; which at the time was the consummate "all-rounder".
2. "All-rounders" from other manufacturers caught up considerably and in many cases overtook the VFR.
3. Riders became more affluent generally so a compromise bike was less of a requirement; such riders went out and purchased a sports bike and a tourer.
3. It's not like there are thousands of VFR owners champing at the bit to do this.
4. If BIKE/Rupe succeed, it's not like everyone including Honda don't already know that they completely over engineered the VFR with the VTEC replacement.
5. etc, etc ad infinitum
I would hazard a guess that a typcial VFR owner is not in to the type of re-engineering that's on the table because usually they are not that type of motorcyclist- on top of all the economic arguments that PaulR gave earlier.
I think BIKE (not Khal personally) should employ Rupe's talents on another project.
edited some of the spelling mistakes.......
BiKE guys- I hope that you've pulled the plug on Rupe's VFR spannering?
rupert paul wrote: The VFR has been traded in – a good thing for me and the bike.
Amen!
____________________
there are only three sports in life:
mountaineering, bullfighting and motorsport.
the rest are merely games.
attributed to Ernest Hemingway
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BlindLemonAde
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:10 am |
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I had a VTR from new - brilliant engine, but thirsty, with the tank too small, bars too low, and suspension too cheap. I had the suspension sorted, thought about raising the bars and getting a bigger tank, but eventually chopped it in for a VFR800...
...which had a brilliant engine, great range, comfortable, but stupid linked brakes. I was forced to sell it by a change in circumstances, but I would have un-linked the brakes, like wot my mate's done on his Blackbird.
So we learn these things by living with the bike, and that's what a long-term test should tell us. We know Honda over-engineer their bikes, just 'coz they can, but we need to keep telling them: K.I.S,S !
Where was the VTR-engined sports tourer they should have made (without any alphabet-soup acronyms all over it) ?
Presumably the "Garage" full of older bikes will tell us how much it costs to fix these engineered-in problems, once the bike is getting on a bit... bearing in mind, what you end up with is an old bike with some new parts, the cost of which you'll never recover at sale time.
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wizenedoldprune
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 05:11 pm |
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Missed out a lot of this debate whilst I was 'off message' for a couple of months. I like simple (bikes and mags), mix of new and old (bikes and people), quirky high quality writing (save the drivel for MCN) and something that makes me laugh. I don't like being lectured if I'm paying good money for the privilege.
VFR - good laugh
GSX 1100 thing - another good laugh
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mph999
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 09:21 pm |
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So, Si H is not looking forward to the summer with an 08 Blade and does not have time to ride it. Si could not bring himself to ride the FZ1 Fazer in winter.
This may screw up my guest invite to the next BiKE test but can I suggest that loan bikes are a waste of time for our busy intrepid journo.
I'll happily trade my RR2 for the 08, I'll even give provide some regular copy on what it's like to live with.
I'll even do it for free......
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there are only three sports in life:
mountaineering, bullfighting and motorsport.
the rest are merely games.
attributed to Ernest Hemingway
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bignige
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 09:55 pm |
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mph999 wrote: So, Si H is not looking forward to the summer with an 08 Blade and does not have time to ride it. Si could not bring himself to ride the FZ1 Fazer in winter.
This may screw up my guest invite to the next BiKE test but can I suggest that loan bikes are a waste of time for our busy intrepid journo.
I'll happily trade my RR2 for the 08, I'll even give provide some regular copy on what it's like to live with.
I'll even do it for free......
yeah, ive been thinking along similar lines myself.
give them to the readers!
yee har
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FalcoDog
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Posted: Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 10:50 pm |
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KhalH wrote: This is just my thoughts on the matter of used v new bikes. Five used bikes are sold for every new one. I've never been able to afford a new bike, it'll likely be a long time before I can. Back when I read magazines (TWO at first, then Ride and then Bike) I cast my eye over new bikes but my heart sank when I saw the price and knew the chances of me ever so much as cocking a leg over one (without being asked to leave the shop without making a scene straight after) were slim to none.
The most I could claw together for a new bike (trade in, cash, loans and promises not to take my clothes off) was about £3000. That was my ceiling. The bits I read were bikes I could just about afford. They felt like they were written for me. The rest was for rich folk.
If your market research says that the majority of your readership buy used than this has some logic. New bikes become used bikes. Some want to know more about where the industry is headed, not where it's been.
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