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Sotto Voce
Forum Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 05:32 pm |
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Dear Steve
I'm a long-time reader of Bike magazine and you may have seen my postings about the magazine on this section of the forum last month. I've been on the brink of writing something about this month's issue since about 30 minutes after opening it on Friday evening and have waited until now because I wanted to make sure that my comments were what I really felt. I said last month on here that I was confused by what you and your staff seem to be trying to achieve and my sense of confusion has increased. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong, but by golly something wrong there surely is. I've still not quite got it but here's a few thoughts:
The magazine is descending into cliches that would be bashed out of any A level pupil. Example: the section headed Planet Bike. Planet Bike? Ugh! (It's right at the beginning - it sets the tone and that tone is mediocrity)
The writing is striving for effect and drama but is poorly executed: example (the Welcome para): "...the timeless three-way struggle between man, machine and clock..." and Circuit Carole, "is simply the best idea the French have ever had". Oh come on!
There's a disconnection between articles and headers: Example, the BSB article which says we've got the best domestic racing in the world but the article is look at who goes. That last is a good basis for an article but it's a bit of superficial and it also feels inconclusive when you get to the end.
That sense of inconclusiveness and incompleteness pops up all over the place and in what should be good articles: Nick Sanders interview; RC45/SP1 article; the France piece (where again the page-headers are balls: "Know everything about riding in North West France"is patronising to readers and the French and because the text fails to live up to the header as it's clearly inconclusive and incomplete).
Some of the tests: what's new in a SV1000 vs Falco test? And where've we read that before?
And last but worst: it feels like the humour and irreverence that were a mark of Bike have been removed and it also feels like you've neutered all of your staff because any sense of who they are has been removed with almost laser-surgery like precision.
A word or two of positive stuff: I like the idea of the fruit-powered 675. It was an interesting experiment. It persuaded young impressionable minds that bikes are cool as is the prospect of doing 170mph powered by apples. It had a coherent narrative across a number of issues. But it was a small bright light in a month of depressing gloom.
It feels to me that the magazine is descending into amateurishness. The layout is confusing; I don't know what you want / support / think; some of the subbing is frankly atrocious (page 128, "Meet The Parents [an almost good idea], the header is about V-twins but the test was adventure bikes!).
In February on here you said that the magazine needed a revamp and that that revamp would have respect for the long traditions of Bike. At the moment I have no idea what those traditions could be because I see almost nothing of what I remember of the last 25 years.
Yours in sorrow and soon-to-be anger
Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 05:33 pm by Sotto Voce
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magpiemale
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 06:07 pm |
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| I my-self do not like the opening pages of contents I prefer the way it was before when you looked at the beginning you knew which bikes were in the magazine (like a listing) also the magazine has a kind off 60's 70's feel to it (or is it just me) I would like to see more of what you can do with a bike like putting diffrent kinds of soft luggage on touring kinds of bikes,and also how to strap luggage down and extra things like power sockets etc to add. Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 06:11 pm by magpiemale
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dainesefreak
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 07:41 pm |
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I feel I need to add my comments here. As a long term Bike mag buyer and subscriber I have to agree with what's being said here. I feel that the humour, substance and some of the Birtishness has gone from the mag and I don't say this to be twee or to comment on the new owners. Having spent many hours on the web (I do work in IT  ) wading through the many US sites that are in abundance, you get a feel for the way the American media report and I say this with no prejudice intended to our US cousins, but it's soooooo bland. When I talk about Britishness I mean the frankness and humour that comes from the British bike riding persona and the refreshing way it emanates from Bike.
I renewed my subscription two issues a go, receiving June as my first issue and I have to say that I probably wouldn't have bothered if I'd waited until today. I'm not saying I would have stopped buying the mag altogether but it would have become an also ran with a couple of others. Bike is the only mag I currently buy/subscribe to and have subscribed to in the past. Performance Bike used to be my mag of choice and then it changed. I even went to one of the consultations/consumer research groups and voiced my opinion, with everyone else in the room, about how disinterested we were in turning the mag into a custom bikes rag; but it seems the wheels were already in motion and it changed for the worst. I really don't want to see something similar happening to Bike but I fear that it may be too late. The magazine is the UK's best seller for a reason and needs to build on the reputation and talent that's already there.
Perhaps I've wasted my subscription fee, perhaps not. I hope the later is true and Bike finds it's feet again. It's a pleasure similar to Top Gear on a Sunday night, it should be out there screaming out and reaffirming all that's good about biking in it's entirety and not trying to conform and fade into blandness. Come on Steve bring back the humour, the sparkle and sprinkle on a bit of Brit grit.
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wizenedoldprune
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 08:53 pm |
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Sotto Voce wrote: Dear Steve
I'm a long-time reader of Bike magazine and you may have seen my postings about the magazine on this section of the forum last month. I've been on the brink of writing something about this month's issue since about 30 minutes after opening it on Friday evening and have waited until now because I wanted to make sure that my comments were what I really felt. I said last month on here that I was confused by what you and your staff seem to be trying to achieve and my sense of confusion has increased. I couldn't quite put my finger on what was wrong, but by golly something wrong there surely is. I've still not quite got it but here's a few thoughts:
The magazine is descending into cliches that would be bashed out of any A level pupil. Example: the section headed Planet Bike. Planet Bike? Ugh! (It's right at the beginning - it sets the tone and that tone is mediocrity)
The writing is striving for effect and drama but is poorly executed: example (the Welcome para): "...the timeless three-way struggle between man, machine and clock..." and Circuit Carole, "is simply the best idea the French have ever had". Oh come on!
There's a disconnection between articles and headers: Example, the BSB article which says we've got the best domestic racing in the world but the article is look at who goes. That last is a good basis for an article but it's a bit of superficial and it also feels inconclusive when you get to the end.
That sense of inconclusiveness and incompleteness pops up all over the place and in what should be good articles: Nick Sanders interview; RC45/SP1 article; the France piece (where again the page-headers are balls: "Know everything about riding in North West France"is patronising to readers and the French and because the text fails to live up to the header as it's clearly inconclusive and incomplete).
Some of the tests: what's new in a SV1000 vs Falco test? And where've we read that before?
And last but worst: it feels like the humour and irreverence that were a mark of Bike have been removed and it also feels like you've neutered all of your staff because any sense of who they are has been removed with almost laser-surgery like precision.
A word or two of positive stuff: I like the idea of the fruit-powered 675. It was an interesting experiment. It persuaded young impressionable minds that bikes are cool as is the prospect of doing 170mph powered by apples. It had a coherent narrative across a number of issues. But it was a small bright light in a month of depressing gloom.
It feels to me that the magazine is descending into amateurishness. The layout is confusing; I don't know what you want / support / think; some of the subbing is frankly atrocious (page 128, "Meet The Parents [an almost good idea], the header is about V-twins but the test was adventure bikes!).
In February on here you said that the magazine needed a revamp and that that revamp would have respect for the long traditions of Bike. At the moment I have no idea what those traditions could be because I see almost nothing of what I remember of the last 25 years.
Yours in sorrow and soon-to-be anger
Said all that I've wanted to say but much more eloquently.
x2 sotto voce
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wallywinker
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 08:30 am |
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| I have to add my name to this ever expanding list of disgruntled, disaffected, ex-subscribers. I started reading Bike in 1993 and have bought it religiously every month since then. When I spent 6 months in the 'states I even managed to find the magazine each month in some stores there. I had subscribed to it for a number of years but, now the time has come for me to admit for the first time that recently the thought has occurred to me 'Maybe I won't buy Bike this month!' It has become one of the crowd of motorcycle magazines that present themselves on the newsagents shelves. I have no real reason to separate Bike from the 'also-ran' magazines that proliferate. The add-on supplements that have recently been included have added no interest for me and have, to my mind, cheapened the magazine making it appear somewhat of a bargain basement publication where quantity seems to outweigh quality. I always thought of Bike as being a publication with good quality articles written well. This was evident when, having read the entire magazine cover to cover within a couple of days I still kept it for the rest of the month to re-read as and when I felt like it. More recently I started reading articles selectively and some of the articles I found tedious, boring and forgettable. As soon as I've finished reading it the magazine goes straight into the bin. I don't know what has happened to cause this, but please bring back Bike and get rid of this shallow, meaningless, tedious and boring impostor.
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confused
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 08:38 am |
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I've been reading BIKE mag since the 80's and can relate to some of what's been written here;
BUT
Is it really the magazine that's become less interesting, or is it me getting older, and my whole outlook on bikes changing 
So I suppose I have to ask myself, is it BIKE that's lost touch with people like me, or is it people like me getting older, that have started to lose touch a little.
Last edited on Tue May 27th, 2008 08:39 am by confused
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Reverend Gixxer
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 09:17 am |
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Sotto Voce wrote:
It feels to me that the magazine is descending into amateurishness. The layout is confusing; I don't know what you want / support / think; some of the subbing is frankly atrocious (page 128, "Meet The Parents [an almost good idea], the header is about V-twins but the test was adventure bikes!).
I don't have a copy in front of me right now, but I'm pretty sure that the "parents" were the bikes that gave us the Aprilia RSV Factory and the Ducatis 848 and 1098...? Which was what the feature was about?
I agree with some of what you say, but it's overly harsh. The June (revamped) issue was better than most that had gone before it in 2007, although that wasn't too hard. Haven't seen July's yet, so reserve judgement.
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scwirral
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 10:06 am |
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Hi, as a subscriber of old I was pleased that Steve got the gig. I sent him an email when I got my first mag under his control to congratulate him and to wish him well, I had bought the odd issue of RiDE and thought it would generally bode well for the future of my fave mag.
I was very uncertain about the revised design of Bike, didn't see a lot wrong with the last style but getting used to it.
I think a perennial problem for magazines is how to satisfy the long term subscribers and people who are fairly new to the readership. You can't keep running articles on how to do basic maintenance / how to buy a good used bike etc when the majority have probably read it all before. Also, it seems to me that in the modern era there are few truely bad bikes, so while we are interested to learn what the road testers think, we are likely to buy based on what we want them for, or even *shock* what they look like. Its also true that the vast majority of the readership dont ride this years bikes, and while they have an interest in them, they aren't in a position to buy either.
Its great to hear that Dan is on his way back to BiKe. His travel writing was always a highlight. While many of us dream of round the world tours, we can't realisitically spend the time or the cash to do it.
IMHO Rupert Paul produces some of the best content of all in the bike press. His insightful reporting of developments in alternative fuels, and his work on developing bikes in PB have been the most interesting things in recent months.
I think the way forward will involve making the magazine much more interactive. Hopefully the forum will become an exciting partner to the magazine, with the readership becoming an active part of the future direction. Similarly I think the BiKe track days will prove very popular and valuable.
Good luck, Steve. I know that you can't please all of the people all of the time, but maybe it is time to engage with the readers again as you consider the future purpose and direction of a cherished title.
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karTER
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 11:11 am |
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Good post- and welcome to the board.
You're not his mum, are you?
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Sotto Voce
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 11:36 am |
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Reverend Gixxer wrote: Sotto Voce wrote:
It feels to me that the magazine is descending into amateurishness. The layout is confusing; I don't know what you want / support / think; some of the subbing is frankly atrocious (page 128, "Meet The Parents [an almost good idea], the header is about V-twins but the test was adventure bikes!).
I don't have a copy in front of me right now, but I'm pretty sure that the "parents" were the bikes that gave us the Aprilia RSV Factory and the Ducatis 848 and 1098...? Which was what the feature was about?
I agree with some of what you say, but it's overly harsh. The June (revamped) issue was better than most that had gone before it in 2007, although that wasn't too hard. Haven't seen July's yet, so reserve judgement.
The point I was making is that this month the Giant Test was adventure bikes; the parents were the R1150GS and the like; but the header at the top left hand corner said, "V-Twins" or something similar. In other words last month's Meet the Parents page header had been lazily copied into this month's. Hence my observation: poor editing. On its own I couldn't give a monkeys but it strikes me that this was consistent with a slightly unfinished, not well written, amateur production...
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Reverend Gixxer
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 11:39 am |
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Sotto Voce wrote:
The point I was making is that this month the Giant Test was adventure bikes; the parents were the R1150GS and the like; but the header at the top left hand corner said, "V-Twins" or something similar. In other words last month's Meet the Parents page header had been lazily copied into this month's. Hence my observation: poor editing. On its own I couldn't give a monkeys but it strikes me that this was consistent with a slightly unfinished, not well written, amateur production...
In which case, fair point well made - blimey, the lazy so and sos!
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dave1450
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Posted: Tue May 27th, 2008 03:45 pm |
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Well well, one issue with a few errors, bad enough I suppose, but there was a lot of good stuff too. Melting Point, Need to Know How Does that work all good, and aimed at those newer bikers who any mag has to reach if it wants a future.
The RC45 story was good, One for the Road (GSX R750-v-VFR) and Dont Panic were excellent as was the comparison between big trailies.
Somehow the humor in the mag seems dampened a bit, almost as if the staff are not having the time to be amusing, maybe too many things to do without enough time to so they have to cut things abit?
The ad for the Mitsubishi reversing into its caravan was funny though!
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nickwiz
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Posted: Fri May 30th, 2008 01:30 pm |
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| Actualy I thought this months was better. Content wise. Still don't like the design though. I bought TWO for comparison. Actualy a very similar magazine but the look is better.
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Reverend Gixxer
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Posted: Sat May 31st, 2008 02:11 pm |
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Sotto Voce wrote:
The point I was making is that this month the Giant Test was adventure bikes; the parents were the R1150GS and the like; but the header at the top left hand corner said, "V-Twins" or something similar. In other words last month's Meet the Parents page header had been lazily copied into this month's. Hence my observation: poor editing. On its own I couldn't give a monkeys but it strikes me that this was consistent with a slightly unfinished, not well written, amateur production...
OK, now I've seen a copy. Who decided that designing by template was a good idea? Poor subbing, poor design...
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HARHarharharhar
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Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 06:00 pm |
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dave1450 wrote: Well well, one issue with a few errors, bad enough I suppose, but there was a lot of good stuff too. Melting Point, Need to Know How Does that work all good, and aimed at those newer bikers who any mag has to reach if it wants a future.
The RC45 story was good, One for the Road (GSX R750-v-VFR) and Dont Panic were excellent as was the comparison between big trailies.
Somehow the humor in the mag seems dampened a bit, almost as if the staff are not having the time to be amusing, maybe too many things to do without enough time to so they have to cut things abit?
The ad for the Mitsubishi reversing into its caravan was funny though!
I'd agree with that. I think last two issues are a big improvement over last couple years. I do think a little more silliness and Britishness is needed and the staff competitions are a BIKE speciality, always entertaining and hilarious (especially when Hargreaves always gets caught cheating). Overall liked the last two issues a lot though.
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Marvoging
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 08:48 pm |
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confused wrote: Is it really the magazine that's become less interesting, or is it me getting older, and my whole outlook on bikes changing
So I suppose I have to ask myself, is it BIKE that's lost touch with people like me, or is it people like me getting older, that have started to lose touch a little.
Good post.
scwirral wrote: Hopefully the forum will become an exciting partner to the magazine, with the readership becoming an active part of the future direction.
What ever you do, dont do that!
Last edited on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 08:50 pm by Marvoging
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dooley
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Posted: Tue Jul 1st, 2008 09:27 pm |
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a few points
this thread smacks of nitpickery - ain't there a film out somewhere where you can go look for continuity errors?
yet again i find myself agreeing with something gros wrote
i didn't have very high expectations as i hated ride, but that's mainly down to the formulaic nature of that particular mag. i remember the article when sr was looking to buy/bought his honda - good stuff
it seems ok to me, i like the articles on specials and fancy bikes, and i like the dumb challenges, but i don't expect to see them every month regardless of whether they're truly worthy for inclusion
keep mixing it up
"Start it off a little mellow, work our way into it, catch a groove. Ok. Feel it."
Milo Aukerman
and most importantly - don't pay too much attention to a vocal minority who think that by posting on a forum their voice is more important than anyone elses
Last edited on Tue Jul 1st, 2008 09:40 pm by dooley
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BYT
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 08:02 am |
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I have been reading bike since the very beginning. The recent reprint of the original issue should have shown how the whole motorcycle milieu has changed.
The present magazine reflects the readers and the world they inhabit. The old magazine with it's underground feel and Hunter S. Thompson-esque style was also of it's time.
Most of us remember the 70's and 80's when everyone had a bike as transport. It was a cheaper and let's face it much cooler way of getting around. We were younger and lots of things were shiny and new. The level of experience and expectation of the machines and the culture surrounding was significantly different from the modern biker.
Then there was the 916 and rebirth of Harley-Davidson.
Now there is our Bike magazine. A broad church, trying to address a very different world of motorcycling. It's professional, thoughtful and staffed by clever, entertaining and talented writers. They are bound by constraints that weren't even thought of 30 years ago.
The thing is, it's MUCH better than the early 90's when we had sportsbike, sportsbike, sportsbike or the late 80's when it became a gay contact mag. Steve Rose is doing a damn fine job of delicately balancing all the facets of the present biking scene without unduly irritating most readers and attracting new ones. it's better now than any time in the last 20 years.
IMHO
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Marvoging
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 09:25 am |
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+1 byt
i think im a fairly discerning reader (since Bike began) but Sotto Voce's ( what?) post raises points that have little relevance to me, or most anyone else.
we should stop expecting things to be the same as when we were twenty, because theyre not, and neither is our perception of life and motorcycles.
lets not get away from the fact that Bike is the best mag on the shelves, by some margin. they must be doing something right.
heaven help us if Bike forum members ever had any real voice in the direction of the mag. Ha ha! a sadder bunch is hard to find.
With one or two exceptions, the regular interesting forum contributors have held hands and migrated. What's left is a very low signal to noise ratio. there's no spunk left, only spud water.
good luck Bike mag! and thanks for being a constant positive for over 60% of my life.
Last edited on Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 02:35 pm by Marvoging
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BYT
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Posted: Wed Jul 2nd, 2008 11:10 am |
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| You could bring back Bloodrunners as Ogri is at best an homage to things past, exactly unlike Bike.
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